Truth

[lillibet]

I just watched this week's Smallville, in which Chloe has a lab accident with the result that everyone she talks to has to tell her the truth. Hijinks ensue, of course. The interesting thing was the point it was making, that the truth can hurt, that spreading it may or may not be the right thing to do, that often the truth is not what we want to hear.

Comments

Truth or not.

[lionsburg.livejournal.com]

The entire Radical Honesty community could learn or thing or two from that.

Re: Truth or not.

[clauclauclaudia]

There's a *community*? How does it not dissolve under its own weight?

[bhos.livejournal.com]

I'm kinda curious, what constituted "truth" in the episode? Statements about what happened, what people's experiences were of what happened, and/or judgments and opinions?

My own opinion is that judgments and opinions are best kept in hermetically sealed containers away from words like "truth" or "honesty" - judgments and opinions are nothing but stories to keep us warm at night making LJ comments. [A rant of mine on the usefulness of judgments for destroying relationships.] :)

In regards to Radical Honesty (disclosure - I'm a Radical Honesty trainer), I think that accepting that the truth can hurt, that telling the truth might end up with results we didn't want, and that the truth is often not what listeners want to hear are all part of getting honest. And another part is accepting that we can also get over being hurt and even have stronger relationships for the experience. My notion of the goal of Radical Honesty is for me get over whatever past issues that are getting in the way of forgiveness and greater intimacy in the present. The point of expressing what's going on for me (different from judgments) is to help me do that. In a conversation, what I say to you might generate some responses of your own and I stick around and we continue to relate until we've said and experienced everything we have to and we're done; then we get an ice cream or a beer or make love or try to take over the world or go our separate ways or all of the above.

I think a big question surrounding "truth" involves what to say and when - whether the "truth" is the right thing to say. Another way of looking at this topic is that I can directly relate to you in the present moment, or I can relate to my imagination about how you might react to what I might say and try to figure out whether you might be hurt, pleased, dismissive, or somewhere in between, or try to figure out what to say that will be "nice" or "appropriate." So long as I'm relating to my imagination I'm not going to be relating to you, I'm not going to be present; instead I'm going to be doing something else like sitting like a dumb stick in the corner worrying about what to say (and personally I've spent far too much time doing that). I've gotten (and shared) a lot more joy and freedom from getting real about what I'm feeling and what I want and accepting the consequences than from trying to figure out what to say and when.

jonathan

[lillibet.livejournal.com]

Truths exposed included:

That one of their teachers had been in hiding and was wanted in connection with a 60's era murder charge (a la Sarah Jane Olson)--exposing her story basically ruined her son's life (he hadn't known) and he attempted to kill Chloe for publishing it. This obviously gets into not only knowing the truth, but what you do with other people's truth.

That a girl had cheated on a geometry exam.

That the head cheerleader found it hard to cheer for a losing team (Chloe forced her to say this in front of some of the team members).

That one of the football players is gay (again, Chloe forced this answer in front of his team members).

That Lana is planning to leave town and that she feels judged by everyone and didn't trust Chloe enough to talk to her about it.

That Pete has been in love with Chloe for years, but never said anything because he knows he's got no hope, given her feelings for Clark.

That Martha is worried about Jonathan's health and his reaction to it, afraid that he'll either die or turn into someone different from the man she married.

That Lex can't just walk away from his relationship with his father because he wants his father's love, something he's never admitted.

That Lionel did murder his parents for their life insurance money, knowledge that puts Chloe in danger.

So, a couple of how-people-feel-about-Chloe revelations, but mostly just other people's secrets. She came real close to finding out Clark's secret, but Clark managed to end-run her on that score.

On the whole Radical Honesty thing--I think that if getting real is something you have trouble with, then it might certainly be a useful tool in dealing with that issue. However, I think it's not something to be espoused lightly--I've seen (and experienced) too much pain from people's individual ideas of honesty to believe in it as a panacea.

Just lately I've been re-annoyed by the tendency of immature men* to believe that if they are "honest" about what they're not willing to give in a relationship, then any pain that results from their behavior is neither their fault nor their responsibility and they just get to walk away from it. So this is a hot-button for me right now. (For those watching at home, no, not me, just a couple of friends going through very similar situations.)


*I am certainly open to the idea that women do this, too, but I've never experienced this with women, nor had it reported to me and the same damn words come up over and over from men who want to get laid and have someone to talk to, but don't want to deal with women as people with their own needs and desires.

[bhos.livejournal.com]

I've seen (and experienced) too much pain from people's individual ideas of honesty to believe in it as a panacea.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the word "ideas", my idea is that our ideas (ideations, imaginations, stories, beliefs, judgments) get in the way of directly relating and getting what we want, including ideas about what constitutes honesty. The marketing slogan for Radical Honesty is "Works pretty good, most of the time" and I think that's fairly accurate.

Just lately I've been re-annoyed by the tendency of immature men* to believe that if they are "honest" about what they're not willing to give in a relationship, then any pain that results from their behavior is neither their fault nor their responsibility and they just get to walk away from it. So this is a hot-button for me right now.

Ooh, I recognize an older me in that behavior (nowadays I'm working on getting my heart broken, again and again). And I recognize a couple women I've known (recently, see previous parentheses), though I've mostly seen this in men, too. I'm not totally comfortable with your characterization of what those folks say - I'm mostly against finding "fault" or "responsibility" or labelling the behaviors* and I'm for getting as mad and sad as necessary - by oneself alone, in private, in public displays of outrage, whatever - in order to get over being mad and sad and move on. And moving on might very well include not getting involved in the future with men or women who make up some story about what they aren't willing to give and what they're not responsible for, despite whatever other sterling qualities they may have.

* I think those are all examples of creating stories and judgments and moralisms that can get in the way.

[navrins]

...tendency of immature men* to believe that if they are "honest" about what they're not willing to give in a relationship, then any pain that results from their behavior is neither their fault nor their responsibility and they just get to walk away from it... *I am certainly open to the idea that women do this, too...

Not sure my experience is quite what you're talking about, but I had something like that experience recently. But in that case, I think that she believes she is more responsible for the resulting angst than I believe she is. She did tell me what she wasn't willing to give; I just didn't believe her - it's my own fault I got hurt.